Tuesday, January 08, 2008

SNP - DESPERATE NASTY PEOPLE.

I suppose that readers of this blog will be aware of the latest made up stushie about my 'joke' the SNP want people to believe that I'm a sexist, it shouldn't be that difficult to check, I'm 59 Yrs. old and I've been in politics for for more than 40 of those years so there is plenty of evidence.
That is of course if anyone wants to check but they don't and they won't because they are wrong, worse than that they know they are wrong so why is this happening ?

Well I have been Wendy Alexanders election agent at the last two elections, that should give you a clue.
I will mention a couple of people who ought to be ashamed of themselves.

1st. Mr. Dinwoodie a journalist with what was once a quality paper 'The Herald' this guy recently got into bother with his erstwhile friends the Nats. because of a truly crass piece of gutter journalism by him which upset them.
His bottle as they say crashed and he had to creep back in with them hence this non story. I think he tells his family that he is a slave trader rather than admit to the shame of being a Herald journalist.

2 nd. SNP MSP Christina McKelvie, she also uses this nonsense to jump on the 'get Wendy bandwagon' she also accuses me of being sexist, she is also welcome to check over my past 40 yrs. + - but of course she won't she want's to avoid the truth at all costs.
Hear this Christina anyone, man or woman in or out of politics who uses this rubbish to attack a 3rd. party who is their political opponent is indeed in my opinion stupid and crass.

3 rd. The Herald readers who make on line comments on Herald stories, overwhelmingly Nats. Catch some of this if you want to know why I refer to the Herald as a past quality paper.
you have to read these people to believe that they really do exist.
Most were at the same pathetic game of trying to damage Wendy using this excuse.

4th. The Scottish Sun carried the story - I rest my case.

Is this the Scotland that these people want to see ? it seems like it, I'm going to check if Senator Joe Mc Carthy was Scottish.

85 comments:

Hacksaw Jim Duggan said...

diddums...

Rabbie said...

Cllr. the Herald also carries a Labour quote that you intend relinquishing your post as election agent to Ms Alexander.

If true, this contradicts recent statements on your blog.

Can we have a comment please?

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...

Another inconvenient truth for you Terry.

The Scottish Sun supported Labour in the Scottish elections, as it has done in the previous 3 UK general elections.

BTW, I believe you that it was meant in a jokey way.

Rumbold said...

Terry:

We all make the odd mistake when writing, but please proof-read your pieces before posting (as one of the few people to accept that your comment was a joke I think that I am entilted to sat that).

A selection of mistakes:

- 'Yrs.' should not be capitalised.

- It should be 'Wendy Alexander's', not 'Wendy Alexanders'.

- If you want to list a 'couple of people', don't then go on to list four.

- There should be a comma after 'Mr. Dinwoodie'.

- After 'the Herald', 'this' should have a capital T.

And so on.

As I said before, we are all entilted to make the odd error, but please try harder.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 16:29

Not true I’m afraid, have you not noticed that I have said over and over again that I am not Wendy’s election agent.

Wendy and I sat down after the last election and had a review of the campaign as candidates and agents do and it was at that time that we developed a tacit agreement that it was not likely that I would do the job at the next election. If I’m still around I’ll be 64 and I think it’s time for someone else to step in.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 16:51 I knew that one joke would recognise another.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rumbold) 17:01 -

You are not ‘one of the few’ you are one of the many.

I’ve told you before I don’t complain about other people making mistakes as long as I can understand what they mean, just as I’m doing now with your present post.

Stop being so bloody pompous.

Rabbie said...

(Cllr Kelly @ 5.47)
What you said was that you were not her election agent because there was no election and that you would be proud to serve again.

This is not even close to announcing that you are standing down.

So, Councillor, is the Herald quote correct and if so, when did you make that announcement?

Scottish Politics said...

I actually thought Cllr Terry Kelly was a made up blog until I read the article in the Herald. All the postings just sound like some kind of caricature of a bitter parochial Labour hack.

Rumbold said...

Sorry TK.

Anonymous said...

Jeez Terry, you're getting in a right state are you not about those bad SNP folk. You'd think they won the election or something. Nevermind pal, at least Labour have handled the defeat well and are now showing themselves in a positive, adult manner.

Oops, or maybe not.

Anonymous said...

BWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA

TKMAX OWNED!

Surreptitious Evil said...

I suppose it is one of the classic problems for a politician to try to avoid - becoming the subject of the news themselves rather than their policies.

Oh well, at least you managed to offend the (slightly more than) half of the electorate most likely to vote Labour, so there is a silver lining in everything.

Or you could always cling to the auld saw "There is no such thing as bad publicity."

Anonymous said...

You claim not to be a misogynist. What about this comment of yours on the 4th of January?

"I think crocodile wrestling would be nicer or even worse, going in to Nicola Sturgeon with a broken pay packet"

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 08/01/08 -

I would be proud to serve again and at the election after that and the next but well I’m sure even you can get the picture.

“This is not even close to announcing that you are standing down.”

Are you making up special rules for me ? When have you heard of someone standing down from a job that they don’t hold and wont’ be done for another 4 yrs. ?

I made no announcement but Wendy and I both agreed as explained that someone else would do it.
If any paper had asked that question after May she would have given the same response.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

scottish politics -

"I actually thought Cllr Terry Kelly was a made up blog"

Liar.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 08/01/08 -

Labour are doing fine and the SNP are abandoning election lies by the day - Sports Scotland today what next ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Surreptitious Evil)

09/01/08 - “I suppose it is one of the classic problems for a politician to try to avoid - becoming the subject of the news themselves rather than their policies.”

A stupid statement, absolutely stupid, you obviously don't know politics.

Half the electorate offended - aye right, every woman I’ve spoken to laughed at it and had a go back at me. Tomorrow’s chip wrappers.

“ there’s only one thing worse than being talked about, and that’s not being talked about” (Oscar Wilde)

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 17:31 -

Nicola Sturgeon would be proud of that description and you are clutching at straws.

Rabbie said...

(Cllr Kelly 7pm)
Cllr, I'm puzzled.
You say that you have made no announcement about relinquishing your post as Ms Alexanders agent, yet the Herald article said 'A Labour spokesman pointed out Mr Kelly had already ANNOUNCED his decision to give up his position (as Alexander's agent)'

Cllr, either you or the 'Labour Spokesman' got it wrong.

Which is it?

Maxum said...

Gerald ratner would have been proud of your "joke".

Did you see how his world crumbled after amking such a public gaffe

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 09/01/08 -

'A Labour spokesman pointed out Mr Kelly had already ANNOUNCED his decision to give up his position (as Alexander's agent)'

I can’t quite figure out why you are struggling with this - I can’t choose his words for him but I decided along with Wendy as I told you. I didn’t take out an advert in the paper to announce it but it really wasn’t all that important.
Do you think that an election agent who decides to stand down is worthy of a news item ?

I helped to get Wendy elected and when we were told by people like you that we were beaten I helped her to win again, easily ! I'm pleased about that, she's an outstanding candidate, I’ve done my bit.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Maxum) 11:52 -

I’m touched by your concern, but I don’t think Mr. Ratner made a joke that was what caused his problems.

I’m thinking though about how my world might collapse and I’m struggling.

Rabbie said...

(Cllr Kelly @ 6.32)
Thanks for giving us the definitive version of your 'standing down' as Wendy's agent.
It's clear that the Labour spokesman was lying when he said you had 'announced'you were standing down
I dunno Terry, on top of Clairwil, RFS, Byeck, Henry Crum, Mossad, the Mormons, the NATS and God knows who else, now even your own party are telling porkies about you.
To borrow a line from Kenneth Williams, "Infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy."

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 19:15 -

I told you all this before but you were too stupid to realise that you would get nowhere with it.

The labour spokesman was right I did that, what you don’t understand is that it was an internal matter.

Have you now at long last got an inkling about the leadership, funding, election agents etc. or have I been wasting my time ?

“I dunno Terry, on top of Clairwil, RFS, Byeck, Henry Crum, Mossad, the Mormons, the NATS and God knows who else,”

Thank you for reminding me, I’m not a boastful man but I can’t help being proud of that list of enemies.

Rabbie said...

Thank you Terry,
Why on earth has it taken so long for you to admit that you did announce (albeit in an internal whisper) you were leaving your post as Wendy's agent?

Unless....Nah, it couldn't be.... could it? She DID sack you didn't she?

Anonymous said...

Looks like your 'standing down' was only an internal matter until a 'Labour Spokesman' leaked it.

Two questions: Why would you want to keep it 'internal' and therefore confidential and why would he choose to leak it?

Is there more to come?

Anonymous said...

Very interesting you should invoke McCarthy. Because of course over the course of the last decade it has been proven that he was right.

Anonymous said...

Is it true that you tried to defend Tommy Williams from being sacked after ?Unison found out he was not a member of good standing? And is it also true that you guffed it up by being a little condesending to his boss?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 10/01/08 -

I will be patient further, I did not leave my post the post stops after the election. It wasn’t an internal whisper it was not a story, you continue to show your ignorance of politics.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 10/01/08 -

A labour spokesman did not leak it, he was asked if I was Wendy’s election agent and quite rightly gave that answer.

“Why would you want to keep it 'internal' and therefore confidential “

you seem to be suggesting that we should have made a public announcement stating that I would most likely not be her agent at the next election, can you suggest any paper which would have been able to handle such a scoop ?

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that before. Confidential ? Get real. If you had asked people in the party if I would be the agent next time, the vast majority would have said they have no idea.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 13:44 -

That would explain your anonymity.

Rabbie said...

She sacked you, didn't she

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 14:20 -

No and I’m never condescending, not even to you.

Rabbie Holyroodie said...

Looks like you've drawn attention to yourself with the Herald.

Souper Soaraway said...

"Wendy and I sat down after the last election and had a review of the campaign as candidates and agents do and it was at that time that we developed a tacit agreement that it was not likely that I would do the job at the next election. ."

When did you do this?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie “the scab”
Holyroodie) 12/01/08 -

You need to catch up surely.

I take it as a compliment to be criticised by the Herald, I don’t even bother to correct their blunders anymore.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Souper Soaraway) 12/01/08 -
Can’t remember the exact date, it wouldn’t have been that long after the election.

Jonathan Martyn said...

Sorry to change the subject but do you have any idea how much the SNP controlled council at Renfrewshire are planning to squander on Burns Night this year and how it compares with the normal council expenditure for such events?

Rabbie said...

(Cllr Kelly 7.02)
Terry, please dont confuse me, the original 'Rabbie,' with 'Rabbie Holyroodie.' He aint me!!!

Buddieboyd said...

Keep up the good work Terry. These nats don't like campaigners like you, and hence will stop at nothing to undermine you. Socialism will triump in Paisley and beyond.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Jonathan Martyn) 12/01/08 -
No idea I’m afraid, I don’t know if they are doing anything.
They did run a St. Andrew’s night (tickets £50) no concessions and, I understand that they have taken to hiring pipers and traditional dancers for school openings.
A request under Freedom of Information’ to the council should get you the answers.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 12/01/08 - I can’t tell the difference.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Buddieboyd) 18:22

Thank you comrade.

You are clearly an astute observer.

Jonathan Martyn said...

'They did run a St. Andrew’s night (tickets £50) no concessions and, I understand that they have taken to hiring pipers and traditional dancers for school openings.'

No concessions! Mind you I'd like to think most folk would have better things to do, though of course they should have been given the choice. As to what they hope to achieve by foisting a redundant and repellent culture on innocent children we can only guess.

'I don’t know if they are doing anything.'

You mean you've not been invited!
You must be heartbroken ;-)

Thanks for the FOIA tip. I'll give it a go.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...

Buddyboyd wrote:

Socialism will triump in Paisley and beyond.


Terry wrote:

Thank you comrade.
You are clearly an astute observer.


I'm asking:

Is this it? (see the link)
World Socialism

Is this the 'struggle' that you found so difficult to explain in the past?

Many questions spring to mind, but first of all, is it the 'struggle' that you are involved in or am I being suckered by a spoof web site?

If not, do you seriously believe that we can abolish money and create this socialist vision anytime between now and the sun running out of gas?

Hacksaw Jim Duggan said...

Terry

If you are telling the truth, and it was just a joke, would you not agree that it was a sexist joke nonetheless?

I mean, if you said "all black men are thick" and passed it off as a joke, it would still be gratuitously offensive.

I expect you to treat this in the manner you usually treat comments.

Oh, and comparing your treatment to those of the McCarthy witch-hunts?!?! What planet do you live on?

Still standing up for the now-suspended Tommy Williams?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 14/01/08 - The sun will run out of gas before you do. When was the last time you had a good hard look at the capitalist world, it’s really a shambles to anyone with an open mind.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Hacksaw Jim Duggan) 14/01/08 -

It was a deliberately offensive joke aimed at a someone who had sent me an offensive comment.

McCarthy like you believed in guilt by association and smearing people.

Anonymous said...

McCarthy believed in publishing a known list of security risks that the State Department ignored for almost 5 years. McCarth was right.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 15:43 -

McCarthyism was and is a byword for evil, no wonder you hide your identity.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 15:56 - American politics are the filthiest and most corrupt in the world, you couldn’t find a decent honest candidate among the lot of them. Hillary is as good at dirty tricks as her opponents maybe better, so what. Obama will use his colour when it suits him and run from it when it doesn’t, I never expected anything else.

I knew that you would react about that remark because I have never heard anything so stupid and partisan in years, it’s worth repeating.

“ the American press give Hillary Clinton an easy ride” a monument to stupidity a real howler.

Anonymous said...

Without smearing him can you answer this question: Was McCarthy right?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 13:13 -

I’ll take that as a rhetorical question. I haven’t been in contact with any supporters of the ‘senator from Wisconsin’ before, if you really want to discuss him I’m insisting that you identify yourself.

I can’t take you seriously otherwise.

James Morrison said...

Councillor,
As a part-time stand up I'm always interested in different opinions on the limits of comedy. Can you tell me, if some had accused you of racism would you have responded with a racially offensive joke?

I'm not hostile, far from it. I applaud your bold stance against politically correct cant. Well done sir.

Anonymous said...

No - real question. It is simple, McCarthy claimed to have a list of security risks at the State Department. Was he right? Would my identity alter your answer any?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(James Morrison) 16/01/08 - No. I am opposed to sexist language/ jokes as well.

What happened was that someone wrote me an insulting question so I insulted her with my answer. She wasn’t asking a genuine question so I responded the same way, does that help ?

Rabbie said...

(Cllr Kelly 3.55)
Cllr
I've just re-read Patricia Devlin's question. It was couched in courteous terms, asked a fair question and was factually accurate in the examples she gave.

In hindsight, don't you think an equally courteous denial on your part would have been preferable to the can of worms you opened with the 'Women are thick' comment?

I do hope that domestic diplomatic relations are back to normal now at Casa Kelly.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 17/01/08 -

I believe he would have made up anything, I believe he was a dangerous devious man who would stoop to any level.

I really find it difficult to argue with a supporter of Joe ( America with it’s sleeves rolled) McCarthy.
I can’t believe you so I’m asking you to convince me, who are you ?

Are you asking me if there were any security risks in America ? I don’t know, but it would be strange if there weren’t in a country that size and that diverse but that’s no justification for McCarthy or McCarthyism.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Rabbie) 17:00 - This is pretty stupid even from a racist scab.

Anonymous said...

For the record the State Department list that McCarthy brandished was compiled by someone else at the department and was only produced after the Truman administration refused to do anything.

And also for the record the declassified Venona records in 1995 showed that he was right. Every one of those on the list was groomed by the KGB or was actively passing information to the USSR. Most of the information passed to the KGB allowed for the development of the Soviet nuclear program and facilitated the cold war.

James Morrison said...

"I'm not hostile, far from it. I applaud your bold stance against politically correct cant. Well done sir."

Well not really. I don't know Patricia Devlin but I'm guessing that you do because her question on the surface at least wasn't rude or offensive and could probably have been dealt with easily by a denial.
As I say I'm assuming you know something about her that I don't.

From what i saw here I presumed that you enjoyed racist and sexist jokes. If I got that wrong I'm sorry. Though I have to say I'm now puzzled by you using sexist humour to answer a straightforward question. Please enlighten me.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 19/01/08 -

So McCarthy was right eh ? Why does no one tell this story then.

Are you saying that McCarthy is given a raw deal by history ? Did he not cause hysteria, did he not use guilt by association, did he not smear people, did he not destroy lives, families and careers, was he not responsible for one of the darkest periods in American history, a period which they have never recovered from.

Was he not one of those responsible for telling people that they were not allowed to think, that they were not allowed to be communists, in the land of the free as well ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(James Morrison) 19/01/08 - She included two lies in what she wrote a) I accused a black woman of being racist and b) I did not print contributions from women. She then asked a question which was a calculated insult so I treated her the same way.

Is there really a great mystery here ? Are you being a wee bit disingenuous.

Rabbie said...

(Cllr Kelly 7.47)
Terry
You accused Ms Devlin of three things. You got one of them right - she DID ask why no women were allowed to comment. I see this as an honest question, posed in innocence by a newcomer to your splendid site, who couldn't quite believe what they were reading.

She did NOT call you 'racist.' She said you had 'called a black woman a liar for talking about racism,' which isn't the same thing at all and she said another woman had been banned.

One right out of three isn't bad for you, but you must understand that being exposed to Kelly for the first time, can be traumatic for those of a sensitive nature.

Now,show some of that understanding, be a good Gentleman and apologise to the lady.

Serpico said...

"I do hope that domestic diplomatic relations are back to normal now at Casa Kelly."

Rabbie, considering that TK considers women to be thick, he probably doesn't allow Mrs K access to newspapers in case she gets ideas above her station.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 19/01/08 - every time you write you display an ignorance of politics. You are right about the black woman she was a liar and I don’t believe she was black either.

“ I see this as an honest question, posed in innocence “ if this is how you see it you need an optician.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Serpico) 08:57 -

Is there an argument in there somewhere ? It’s interesting that you seem to be serious about me thinking women are thick,

I don’t even think ‘rabbie the scab’ thinks that, no doubt he’ll let us know.

James Morrison said...

"You are right about the black woman she was a liar and I don’t believe she was black either"

Not really black? Have you seen a picture? What colour is she? Wouldn't that be quite offensive if you were wrong on that score? After all it's not like being black prevents one from reading your blog or asking questions, nor I would have thought is there anything inherently unlikely about being black. This gets stranger by the minute.

I can't actually locate the relevant comments. Any chance of telling us which post they relate to.

'Are you being a wee bit disingenuous?'

No, if she'd said you are a sexist then I could see where you were coming from but she didn't she asked you if you were. Surely a simple denial would have been less grief in the long run. In any case you were happy enough to tell The Herald you weren't sexist without jokes, so why not do the same here?

Anonymous said...

Actually if you look back at McCarthy's accusation he said "there are communists in the State Department".

And you know what? There were communists in the State Department. So he was right. He did not smear anyone - to smear someone you had to be telling lies about them. And those that supported Stalin and the communists in the USSR should have felt unable to express their admiration for communism. It was a vile regime responsible for untold human suffering.

Yes McCarthy did get a raw deal in the media that the HUAC attacked. I mean, after all, this post comes down to you being a "victim" of the same media? That is why you invoked the name of McCarthy. By your standard the fact that the media tells the story they want of McCarthy makes it the truth but when they tell the story they want about you it makes them liars.

How do we square this circle then?

Anonymous said...

Just out of interest can you name the most notable things about Joe McCarthy? He was the first at something, could you tell me (hand on heart you did not look it up on the Internet) off the top of your head what that was?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(James Morrison) 22/01/08 -

It was clear to me at the time that there was an orchestrated attempt to attack me and this was part of it, it was cack handed to the extent that when I made these remarks it all fizzled out.

It was in relation to something I had written on SA, you’ll have to look it up, I don’t have the time.

The sexist stuff is dead.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 16:05 -

There have been communists in America since communism began, there still are.

Many patriotic American Communists fought and died fighting fascism in Spain ‘The Lincoln Battalion of The International Brigades’ then they fought Nazism only to be persecuted by American fascists on return lead by devious thugs like him.

“And you know what? There were communists in the State Department”

This is where your argument crumbles, saying that there were communists in the state dept. or in Holywood or anywhere else may or may not have been true. Saying that that, made them traitors was and is a smear.

Rabbie said...

(James Morrison 2.41)

Terry - to save you time....

James, see the Cllr's post 28 Dec, 'Best Political Cartoon.'
Ms Devlin's query is the first comment

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 16:08 - I have no idea what you are on about but, if it helps, I don’t need the internet for McCarthy.

I’m 59 yrs. Old and I’ve been involved in the Labour Movement for more than 40 of those years, I think I first came across McCarthyism when I was about 16.

Anonymous said...

So you know all you need to know but are unaware of the achievement he made before the era of the investigations?

It kind of sums up your ignorant position. You know only a caricature of the man.

Try reading some alternative theories here. It may not change your mind but at least you will know that there are some out there that are not quite willing to simply buy what the media have said about this man for half a century.

lemontetra said...

What a clown you are, Terry. Wendy should be ashamed of your involvement. You and your ilk are what's been going wrong in the Labour party for the past 40 years. Your duplicity and hypocrisy are boundless and shameless and are the reasons why socialists like me stopped voting for you and looked for an alternative - although that's a tall order in modern Scotland, where "socialism" has been turned into a dirty word by the likes of you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(lemontetra) 14:59 -

wow ! What did I do ? Did you know that it was me who killed Bambi’s mother ?

“the reasons why socialists like me stopped voting for you and looked for an alternative”

Socialists like you are the kind who have no stomach for the fight.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 13:53

You have clearly studied his methods, this is not an answer.

I accuse him of smearing people and using guilt by association by equating being a communist with being a traitor, well ?

lemontetra said...

Terry, I and thousands like me have plenty of stomach for the fight, but none for self-aggrandizing, wrong-headed and self-serving politicking that you indulge in. You give the left a bad name, as evidenced by the stushie about your "thick" women "joke". If it was meant as a joke, it only goes to display your foolishness and inability to see beyond the confines of your comfy Labour cocoon. "The fight" has long since ceasaed to be what your involvement in politics is about. New Labour wouldn't know "the fight" if it bit its lardy arse.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(lemontetra) 16:32 --

The ‘joke’ was meant to insult someone who had insulted me.

Anyway where is this place that you and thousands like you now find such comfort, do you have the bottle to tell us ?

Did you manage to grasp what I told you about Wendy and funding or do you prefer to ignore that ?

Anonymous said...

No, he said they were security risks. The Army wiretapping program called Venona exposed them as traitors. Almost all of the people at State who were on that list were active in passing information to the USSR, those who were not were identified in Soviet cables as targets for grooming.

That is what makes them traitors.

The fact that they supported a regime that murdered its way across Eastern Europe is what should have made them ashamed.

You were right though, my last comment was not an answer simply because the comment of yours I was responding to was not a question.

For your information Joe McCarthy quit as a judge to joint the forces at the outbreak of the Second World War and the distinction he holds is that on his election to the Senate after the war he became the first WWII veteran to serve in the chamber.

Of course if it makes you feel better about yourself you can continue to think of him as a one-dimensional physical incarnation of pure evil.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 10:14

“The Army wiretapping program called Venona exposed them as traitors”

How many were found guilty of treason ? How many did he name ? what was their punishment ? I only recall the famous Rosenbergs and they were victims of the Hysteria that he created.

“That is what makes them traitors.

The fact that they supported a regime that murdered its way across Eastern Europe is what should have made them ashamed”

And that Mr. Anonymous is McCarthyism.

Anonymous said...

If you had even the slightest interest in history you would know that the Rosenbergs were the centre of an extensive spy ring that Venona tracked. The evidence is now irrefutable. They were not victims of hysteria, they were active spy masters.

Once Venona was declassified there was indignation in right-wing opinion that J Edgar Hoover decided against using Venona transcripts, that would have proven their guilt, to protect the program. Several other cases were allowed to collapse despite having Venona evidence that would today convict because to use it would have compromised the existence of the operation.

Of those he named, as I said in my last comment, they were *all* proven by Venona either to be passing information directly to the USSR or being groomed by the KGB/NKVD to do so.

McCarthy said there were communists working in the State Department. He used a list compiled by the FBI and ignored by FDR and Truman to pursue them and we now know that every name on that list was indeed a member of an organisation directly financed by and supporting the aims of a regime that was mass murdering its way though Europe. In some cases the information passed by these people allowed the USSR to build its nuclear capability and lead to 50 years of standoff and the building of doomsday ships.

They did this and Venona was the proof to McCarthy's allegations.

It should be noted that there is no evidence that McCarthy had any knowledge of the Venona Program.

I take it that you support the BNP in its admiration for fascist policies or is it just support of left-wing genocide that you condone?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 12:13

How many did he name ? how many were charged ? how many found guilty ? what was their punishment ? Were all those American communists who fought Fascism traitors ?

Come on Mr. Anonymous (bang) ‘are you now or have you ever been an apologist for evil’ (bang) no you can’t take the fifth (bang) the witness will answer the question (bang) are you now or have you ever been an apologist for evil (bang)

“I take it that you support the BNP” you digress Mr. Anonymous, I wonder why.